Thoughts On Forging

[fae_boleyn]

OK, so, I've tackled Arthur's job as the point man (here: fae-boleyn.livejournal.com/14015.html), now I want to turn my attention to Eames' job as a forger. I don't think I have as much to say about this one, mostly because I was also trying to counter what seems to be some accepted fanon that really annoys me in the Arthur/point man meta. This one I don't really have an agenda for.

So. Forging. I actually think this has to be the riskiest dreamscape job, and I suspect that there are only a handful of forgers out there. I know some people think Eames is the only one, but I find that a bit unlikely, unless the dreamshare community is very small. Because even if Eames is self-taught, which is a possibility, someone else had to have come up with the idea of changing their physical form in dreams and managed to pull it off convincingly. I think we've all dreamed ourselves into someone else's body at least once in our lives - I had a really odd one involving myself as Joan of Arc after a very odd episode of this kids' show called Wishbone, but that's another story altogether. Also, if you can fold up a city like a tortilla, why can't you make yourself look different? I wouldn't be surprised to find a handful of "semi-forgers", which is to say people who can change individual things about their own appearance, like hair, eyes, or height. The best of these would probably be able to manage opposite-gender versions of themselves, but they wouldn't be able to forge another person, real or made up.

Which brings me to my next point. I tend to think that there are two kinds of what I'm going to call full forgery. The first we see with the Blonde, and the second we see with Eames' forge of Browning. The Blonde is, in my mind, someone Eames created. I can't remember his exact phrasing and my computer doesn't want to play DVDs today so I can't check, but he says something along the lines of having a lovely lady they can use to distract Fischer. This may be me reading too much into a turn of phrase, but it feels to me like Eames designed her, the way Ariadne or pre-Limbo Cobb would do a dreamscape. I see forgers as constantly observing the people around them, picking up a gesture here, a hairstyle there, that pair of eyes on the guy in the corner, etc., and blending them together to create original, generic characters for simple things like distracting a mark.

Then there's the more complex forgeries, those of real people. We know that Eames spent hours observing Browning, and that he actually had to practice Browning's gestures and such over and over again. I suspect he did some of this in reality as well as in the dream, for the muscle memory aspect of it. This type of forgery also requires a certain amount of psychoanalysis, because in order to be convincing as a character, you have to understand their mindset, not just mimic their behaviors. This is something that I had to do myself, for an acting class last year. Our professor had us writing papers in character about the mindset and background of our role, really getting us into the characters' heads. A forger would have to be a lot better at this than a bunch of college kids fulfilling their fine arts core requirement.

Which brings me full circle to the first thing I said in this discussion. Forgery is the riskiest job there is in dreamshare. Why? Think about it. A forger inhabits the character of another person. The biggest risk in dreaming is losing yourself; how much higher do the odds of that go when your job involves being someone other than yourself? So how does someone like Eames do what he does without going nuts? Simple. He doesn't believe it himself. I've seen the idea in some places that even the forger must be convinced that he or she is the person they're pretending to be or the forge won't hold, but I can't see how that doesn't lead to madness. (Of course, if you're writing a fic and that;s your plan...) The trick in forgery is to convince your audience, just like a good actor. But in the end, it's just a mask. A terribly elaborate one, but still a mask. A forger probably has to know himself or herself better than most people ever do, simply because they need to be secure  and anchored in their own identity to keep from losing it. I genuinely think there have been forgers who began to believe their own acts, and if someone didn't catch it, they probably lost their minds.

So that's about all I have to say on forgery, but I hope it was at least a little bit interesting.

 

Comments

[theta2serpentis.livejournal.com]

As I recall the line was "How about a lovely lady I've used before", but I could very easily be wrong. *shrugs* I spent far more time focused on the interaction between Cobb and Arthur where Eames and forging are introduced ("There are plenty of good thieves" "We don't just need a thief, we need a forger") and trying to figure out if that means Thief is some sort of one-step down from Forger in the dreamworld.

I really like your explanation here - especially since most people forget that actors on stage can never safely go completely into character or we miss our cues.

Out of curiousity, am I the only one who thought that Eames seemed the most comfortable just going ahead and changing things in the dreams (pulling out guns from nowhere, flipping back from the Blond to himself in two stages [body, then reflection] in front of Saito)? It just sort of struck me as odd that he seemed so at ease changing when most of the time changing things causes unwelcome attention from projections. It made me wonder if maybe part of the reason (apart from those you've mentioned; which are all spot on, in my opinion) Forgers are comparatively rare was that they can change things without alarming the subconscious quite as much as everyone else.

[fae-boleyn.livejournal.com]

I think you're right, and good question about thief/forger. I hadn't thought of that.

I'm not an actor, I'm a journalism major who took an acting class, but that was one of the things I left the class with. You have to get into the character's head, but you also have to remember your lines, what side of the stage you enter in, etc.

He is the most comfortable, and forgery may well have something to do with that. Admittedly, his shift from the Blonde to himself in front of Saito was in the privacy of the elevator and the gun thing was after the projections had already gone haywire so any extra tension would have gone unnoticed.

[theta2serpentis.livejournal.com]

Well, I do have a habit of latching onto and examining the strangest things, so having not thought of it isn't exactly unusual.

It sounds like you understood very well about what needs to go on inside an actor's head. :)

True, but the projections that attacked Ariadne when she changed things in practice runs weren't necessarily there to see the bridges forming, etc. If the subconscious mind - the dream world - is a whole (which it ought to be, if one isn't suffering from a multiple personality disorder) then a change in one part of a dream should be just as noticeable - and thus as likely to put projections on alert - as a change in another, more visible, part. Or perhaps I'm over analyzing the matter.

[yamikinoko.livejournal.com]

Because I'm a nut and I like reading long comments about Inception...

I rather thought that the "thief" comment Arthur made was just another jibe at Eames-in-absentia in their never-ending snarking wars. Because in the plan that they ended up making, I didn't see anything that involved theft of any sort, so I doubt "thief" is a term referring to a dream-role, the way a forger, or an architect are dream-roles [that'd be an extractor].

[[Though now that you mention it, I figure that's probably where fanon got the idea that Eames is a slick-fingered pickpocket.]]

I thought that the guns and other things were small enough changes that it didn't alert the subconscious that something was up. [The subconscious attacks when it realizes that it is misplaced in someone else's dream.] Ariadne was changing whole blocks in broad daylight, with tons of projections nearby--there is no way the weirdness of everything she was doing could be missed. I'm not experienced in the field of psychology, but I figure it's possible for the subconscious to miss things the same way the, uhh... conscious does. So as long as they're little things, out of the sight of the subconscious and not done directly to the "reality" of the dream, then I don't believe the subconscious will attack.

Or long story short, Eames wasn't the dreamer and the subconscious only attacks the dreamer and those that protect the dreamer. [You'll remember that he didn't pull anything out of the air when it was on his dream level.]

Ahahahh--sorry for barging into your conversation. And word vomiting. Thanks for letting me play in the sandbox! :]

[fae-boleyn.livejournal.com]

I welcome discussion between people on my entries, it makes for great reading and also I can get in on it too. ;)

Arthur, Eames, and their snark has led to so much fanon perception. *sigh* Arthur is not lacking in imagination, despite what Eames says. However, Arthur's comment seems at least slightly more accurate - it is Eames who lifts Fischer's wallet.

Interesting idea about it only being the dreamer who really draws the attention of projections, I don't think I've seen that one come up before.

A threadjack within a threadjack!

[heith-30.livejournal.com]

So, my two cents. I totally agree with what you said about the difference between changing details of a dream vs. changing its "reality", for the subconscious of a subject.
However, I beg to differ with this: "the subconscious only attacks the dreamer and those that protect the dreamer".
Even though, IIRC, Cobb said that the projections "sense the foreign nature of the dreamer", in the hotel level he still attracts the attention of Robert's projections and we know that he's not the dreamer. So I'd say that the projections can sense any foreign presence in a dream, provided they act that way.
That being said, Cobb manages to fix that by passing himself off as a projection to Robert, whereas Arthur simply can't do that (and knows it), which could mean two things:
-It's all about what the subject believes;
-It's all about the hierarchy. Maybe the dreamer is automatically sensed by the projections and his/her, uh, co-dreamer(s) have to act strangely to trigger a reaction from the projections, so it might be easier for not!dreamers to reverse that. Which justifies your remark about Eames not pulling anything out of the air in the snow level, because they're already after him. But then it's not like in the first level: this time, they're prepared.

Okay this is not really me disagreeing as much as expanding a bit on your thoughts. :D

[darkhavens.livejournal.com]

A forger probably has to know himself or herself better than most people ever do, simply because they need to be secure and anchored in their own identity to keep from losing it. I genuinely think there have been forgers who began to believe their own acts, and if someone didn't catch it, they probably lost their minds.

This! Exactly this. I've been throwing thinky thoughts like this at my latest convert to Inception. The fics where the 'craft' is all about believing yourself to be the person you're forging - it sounds so damn risky and bound to end in disaster.

My logic says a forger needs to know themselves inside and out - including habits, quirks, every single character flaw - so that they can bundle it up tight inside themselves before slipping into someone else for however long is needed.

And we are also of one mind when it comes to psychoanalysis being at least as important as being able to mimic your target.

When Cobb went to get Eames in Mombasa, Eames showed off his analytical skills (and made me swoon) by taking the few details Cobb had shared about the job and nailing exactly what they'd need to do to have any chance of success.

The quote you were aiming for is:

Cobb: We need some kind of distraction.
Eames: No problem. How about a lovely lady that I've used before?

(I... may have transcribed the Arthur-Eames-related portions of the movie for ease of reference. :D )

(ETA: Here via metafandom.)

[fae-boleyn.livejournal.com]

I need people to throw thinky thoughts at! :( Hence my being on my second meta, though I think this is it because I have no theories on the other jobs.

I created a character who was originally meant to start out as a forger, but she almost lost herself in her roles. The set-up was edited out because it was melodramatic, but I used the concept in the Eames section of a backstory series I did; he was actually the one who realized where the people who were losing it were going wrong. I thought it was fitting, since we know he ends up being the best at what he does. But that's where this started.

We know Eames reads Browning's character as well as picking up his physical presence. He makes that much clear when he talks about Browning.

I am impressed by your transcribing. And yes, Eames being analytical is hot. So is Arthur finding the various plan holes, but that's a different meta. ;)

I confess to being unfamiliar with that comm.

[ashoakandthorn]

This caught my interest, and I just wanted to throw in my two cents.

I don't think I've even seen Eames hold onto a forge longer than he absolutely has to.

[fae-boleyn.livejournal.com]

Which, though I had not considered that part, would seem to support my theory that forgery is risky in terms of trying not to lose yourself.

[sid-vicious-03.livejournal.com]

As an actor I find it the best way to become someone else or your character. Is actually believing you are that person, because the one true trick in acting, is really 'If you want the crowd to believe it, then you have to believe it yourself'

Since the dream world is flexible as it is, I think it would be to that rule as well. Of course there would be risks with one's sanity about it. But that's where my little theory comes in, Eames is seen practicing Browning in front of a mirror, he is Eames but the reflection shows Browing. It's the same with the Blond. He is Eames in the mirror reflection while Saito sees the Blond. So that way he would know he is himself, but others see him as the person that is needed to. Saito saw what he wanted him to see and what he was acting out.

And as an actor, you also know and feel when your part is over and before you know it, you are yourself again. It's all a matter of feeling when to drop the persona you are portraying for others. For most it comes naturally, while others have to struggle with it.

But yes, I do agree however with that the forger really has to know themselves in order to pull it through. If they know who they are and can act, then becoming someone else for an hour shouldn't become that difficult.

Sorry for the rant ._.

[fae-boleyn.livejournal.com]

I freely admit to not being an actor myself, so no need to apologize for the rant. It probably depends on the person and their mindset. Also, I learned something from your comment; I have an academic mindset so this is always a good thing.

I do think a forger can never entirely become the forge for psychological reasons, but you make a very good point. I like the reflection bit, I had assumed that was a side effect of forging and not something deliberate, but it's a fascinating idea.

[sid-vicious-03.livejournal.com]

Depends a lot on ones mindset. While it actually happens that an actor still believes he/she is the character even after the play/movie. What more is common is the exhaustion that comes with it after words. Because suppressing ones own personality is an extremely hard thing to do and while you might not notice it while you're acting. But as soon as everything is over, you are as dead tired as someone who ran a marathon for 3 days straight.

So yeah, definitely depends on the person and the mindset. Some can do it, some can't. Just like about everything else in the world.

And very glad I made at least one good point in the rant XD

[bennet-7.livejournal.com]

This is really interesting. I know you're not an A/A fan so you may not have read someinstant's Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed which contains a really interesting scene between Eames and Ariadne where he describes two kind of forgeries: "composites" that he's created himself and "copies" - real people.

I've always wondered if Eames is always performing, even in reality, as he hides his intelligence at times. I really want to read fic where he's more comfortable being other people than himself because he doesn't really know what his personality is anymore.

I definitely think that there are other forgers out there but that Eames is primarily known or works as an extractor/thief because Arthur doesn't immediately associate forgery with Eames when Cobb announces he's going to Mombasa.

[fae-boleyn.livejournal.com]

Good to know I'm not alone in my way of thinking. :)

I'd say to some extent Eames is definitely always "on", that it's very hard to see the real him. It's something that comes up in A/E fics; I haven't really tackled it yet but probably will at some point.

I hadn't thought of that, the idea that Eames may not be primarily a forger, but I have read and written him as switching between extraction and forgery easily. Forgery is not always a necessary component of a job; an extractor is.

[sparrow-hubris.livejournal.com]

I actually tried to explore the idea of Eames' not being comfortable in his own skin in my fiction. But it was on a darker level. Mine was based in self loathing more than losing oneself.

But I do like the idea. Eames to me seems guarded in a way, like he has a front. He puts on a show of confidence. And I wonder if it's the real him. He also is so fidgety that I get the sense he's always uncomfortable. He's always looking around even during conversations. It's either he's observing everything all the time, or he doesn't want to hold focus because it could reveal something true about himself to his audience.

[yamikinoko.livejournal.com]

You basically said everything I ever thought on the subject of forgery in this one post. [I completely forgot to reply to your Arthur!meta, but I thought that one was utterly fabulous.]

I completely agree with you--I honestly don't think that Eames is the only forger in existence either. But I think the kind of skill it would take on enough of a person's mannerisms and personality quirks would not only take a ridiculous amount of research and stalking but also, like you said, incredible psychoanalysis and behavioral skills. So honestly, forgers at Eames' level must be incredibly few in number. [And seeing as how Cobb sought him ought in the middle of Cobol-territory, I'd say it's safe to say that fanon is correct when assuming that Eames is either the best or one of.] Either way, it doesn't appear that a forger is a standard member of an extraction team anyway.

I'd love to hear your input on this though. Do you remember that scene when Eames is sitting in front of a mirror, practicing his expressions or something? How the audience sees Browning in the mirror, and when it pans back, we [rather alarmingly] see Browning in his place? Or when girl!Eames stalks into the elevator and puts Saito's hand on his boob, but Saito's gaze is suddenly attracted to the mirror, where he sees Eames' reflection, and when he looks back, it's Eames again? There is also that scene where Browning!Eames and Fischer have are sitting together on the street after swimming away from the van and when the camera moves around Fischer [we lose sight of Browning] and back to Eames, we see Eames once more.

What do you think? Clever transition on the part of Nolan, or something else?

[fae-boleyn.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the compliments to both metas! :D

I definitely think Eames is one of the best, he may even have been the one to invent the skill. That's more likely if you go with the shooting script, which says he's about forty, than assume Eames is roughly Tom Hardy's age - thirty-two, I believe. I wrote in a fic that he wasn't the first, but he was the one who had the breakthrough, so to speak, about why some of the others in forgery training (government work) were losing their minds. He was working with the inventor of it, and even she said he'd probably end up better than her. Which he did, in that story-canon.

Forgers don't seem to be standard, which is why I think Eames must supplement his forgery jobs with real life cons/thievery and/or working as an extractor himself.

Depends on your scene. I'd say when the mirrors are involved that no, there's something in that. Mirrors seem to have a peculiar effect on forgery - if you note, I think it's actually the reflection of the reflection that shows Eames (mirrored walls create two reflections) and the regular one is the Blonde. Or I might have that backwards, but either way, the point is that, clearly, the mirrors had an effect on perception. The scene with Eames and Fischer I think was just transition on Nolan's part, because unless Eames was planning to knock Fischer out in the next five seconds or so, Robert would notice his uncle just turned into an attractive British guy. :)

Which begs the question of whether or not Eames had to play Browning for the entire week they were stuck in first level waiting for the kick, but that's another story altogether...

[elixile22.livejournal.com]

Oh I think this has to be my first Inception fandom comment!

I just wanted to say I like both these metas very much indeed. I think fanon has made some rather odd tangental quirks out of Arthur's personality and it was nice to see a lot of how I viewed him in your analysis.

In terms of Eames, I can only re-iterate a lot of the comments above (so I won't, I'll just have a ball reading them). Eames was undoubtedly my favourite character in the movie. He's refreshingly complex and engaging.

I have read in some fics a concept that Eames does not have a totem, essentially because: either his self-actualisation is so strong or he just knows he's not dreaming as he cannot forge in reality. What're your thoughts on that?

Whilst it's not related to his role, it's interesting to see your thoughts on his age (I see him older than 32!). Also, what do you feel about a fair amount of fic making him rather uncouth/rough/classless in his history and voice? He just oozed laconic middle/upper class to me in his accent (I'm a brit by the way), so I must say I find that all a bit odd.

[fae-boleyn.livejournal.com]

Thank you! Fanon has a tendency, especially with a movie fandom, to exaggerate little things or take comments like the one Eames made (to me clearly meant as snark) at face value. Book and TV shows give you more info - a good part of why I write more often in those fandoms.

Arthur is actually my favorite, but Eames is a close second and Arthur only pulled ahead from a tie because I find it easier to get into his head when writing. But Eames was fantastically done; there's a reasom Tom Hardy seems to be the breakout star of the film.

I usually give him a totem - initially I admit I used the poker chip cliche, because it's recognizable. More recently I've had him with a lighter that doesn't work, though I've also seen a pocket watch suggested. I think he'd need a totem just to be on the safe side - we don't know if there might be a drug or something that could suppress his forgery. But then again, I can see why he might not have one. I would just think he'd be smart to have it, if only for an extra layer of security.

I don't know how I feel about his age. I used to write him as 32 because I didn't know the character's age, and failing info on that, I went with the actor's. I don't quite think he's forty (that could just be my inner shipper being unhappy about the age gaps that would cause) but I would probably say mid/late thirties. I'm terrible at guessing age, though.

I'm American and have little knowledge of British accents - as I imagine you would probably not have much knowledge of American ones unless you went out of your way to know. But I think it's a development based on the idea that Eames is a bit of a flirt. I think he likes messing with people and flirting is one way he does that. That and he's a thief, as far as we know, which some people equate with low-class. But actually I've seen plenty of fics where he's from middle/upper-class, even noble families. I wrote him as the out-of-wedlock son of a PM, sort of a compromise between the two as I saw his mother as middle class and his father as rather upper class (possibly knighted but I never officially decided that).

[croik.livejournal.com]

Hope you don't mind if I pop into your conversation, re: Eames's totem!

I like the idea that Eames does not have a traditional totem. Cobb says that the totems were Mal's idea, so unless Mal was a huge figure in the dreamshare world I don't see totem use being a common practice. Plus you're right, Eames can't shapeshift in reality (or can he!?) so that seems like a really easy test for him to do.

On the other hand, I kind of like the idea that mirrors act as his totem, since he seems to employ them when going in and out of a Forge (on a few occasions at least). When he pops into the elevator with Saito it almost looks as if it's the mirrors that give him away.

As for his age, the shooting script describes him as being 40 (iirc) but I don't know if that was written before or after he was cast...?

[croik.livejournal.com]

Saw this via inceptiondaily, thought I'd pop in~

I like what you've written here a lot. Especially the part at the top about "we've all dreamed about being someone else." I think it touches on one of the aspects of the movie that drew a lot of criticism from certain reviewers: that the dreams in Inception are all fairly normal. It makes sense in context because the whole point is to convince Fischer he's awake, and having unicorns flying around (or whatever) wouldn't exactly help with the mission. But then you gotta wonder if stranger dreams are common or even possible if you're using Somnacin simply for recreation. Are the dreams in Inception mostly reality-based because it's just convenient, or because there's some kind of logic-based restriction that happens when you're consciously creating?

With Forging especially, you'd think that anyone with a PASIV would want to try that, but the movie hints that Eames is a rare breed of dreamer (so much so that Cobb put himself at risk to get to him, in any case). So what is it that prevents most people from Forging, but allows Eames to, apparently with some ease? Or is it that most people can, but it's so risky that professionals like Cobb and Arthur know better than to do it during a job? Is Eames unique because he can control the skill or because he has it at all? They're all very interesting questions!

I have a few ideas of my own how forging works but I don't wanna clog up your journal :B

[fae-boleyn.livejournal.com]

I'd say it's the practicalities of it, because you need to convince the dreamer he's awake. Of course, there's also the chance that maybe in some cases, creating a fantasy world tailored to the desires (not necessarily sexual, though that would work) could do it. Create a world they want so much that they won't want to know if it's a dream. I've had that happen too, when I realized I was dreaming but didn't want to wake up.

I'd say anyone can forge to some extent, unless there's some kind of mental block on it - I have written Arthur with such a block once or twice, not because of a "lack of imagination" but because he truly does not want to be in anyone's skin but his own. I'd say most people probably can't hold a forge if they can manage a convincing one. That's where someone like Eames, with real skill, comes in.

Share if you like, seriously! I post these just as much to get a discussion going as anything!

[unfrosted-cake.livejournal.com]

I tend to think Eames isn't the only forger simply because Arthur doesn't automatically associate him with the skill when Cobb says he's going to talk with him. If he was the only forger, I would think he'd be known primarily for that.

Which makes me wonder if only architects and chemists are known specifically for their in-dream skill-set first, where everyone else is considered a general extractor first? I.E. if Ariadne's name is mentioned, everyone automatically thinks "Architect," whereas if you mention Arthur, they think "extractor" first, and then "he does point work," or for Eames "extractor," followed by "he forges."

[fae-boleyn.livejournal.com]

Oh, now that is interesting and not something I've heard before. That would make sense. After all, we know chemistry and architecture require specific training, whereas the other three jobs... I'd say they need training, but not necessarily anything specific. So maybe they are all extractors, and then have their specialties. Hmm. I like that idea. :)